The election is ruining the pumpkin spice vibe!
It’s a beautiful time of the year in the American South. Fall leaves are various shades of mustard yellow and squash orange. The weather is perfectly gentle. Summer’s humidity is finally gone. Early autumn in America means oversized Halloween decorations are draped on the facades of houses. Giant spiders, plastic skeletons and fake cobwebs litter front yards. It’s always a charming, fun and special time of the year. This year though everyone is anxious. The election, someone moaned to me, is ruining the pumpkin spice vibe.
It’s also a damned scary time. None of us need a Freddy Krueger mask or a polyester witches hat to remind us that there are some pretty nightmare scenarios for the coming weeks.
The national conversation, the posters and the barrage of political ads is making everyone even more jittery. Hyper-partisan fear mongering is on steroids as both parties try to get undecided voters to the ballot.
In the midst of this, Ben Jealous joined me to talk about his America. Ben used to head up the NAACP, a civil rights organization, and now leads the Sierra Club, which is the oldest and biggest environmental group in the States. The biracial son of school teachers, he tells stories of his family; a distinctly American family made up of the descendants of slaves, a suspected pirate and aTrump-voting lorry-driving uncle.
Ben also has a stutter which he eloquently talks about from the perspective of being a surfer. As a child, Bill Cosby mocked his stutter which, Ben says, was the first indication he knew something was wrong with Cosby.
Thank you for listening,
Happy Halloween.
An election scarier than Halloween
Ben Jealous (Part 1)
Ben Jealous is one of America's civil rights leaders. He's worked with Kamala Harris in San Francisco and heads up the country's largest and oldest environmental group. Robyn Curnow talks to him about black men being 'Trump-curious,' white poverty and his personal story as the son of a mixed-race marriage that was illegal at the time.
That's when we knew something was off with Bill Cosby
Ben Jealous (Part 2)
Ben Jealous has given thousands of speeches as an American civil rights leader but few would guess that he had a childhood stutter that still defines his patterns of speech. As a surfer, he says he tends to ride his words and sentences like a wave. When he was a kid, Bill Cosby humiliated his stammer which left Ben's family stunned at the contrast between Cosby's public and personal behavior.
Take listen to Ben favourite things on this bonus b-roll episode.
Ben Jealous
Three words to describe America: Big, beautiful, and divided.
Favorite landscape: Big Sur. Yosemite
Family background: My father’s family arrived in Salem, Massachusetts, around 400 years ago, coming from England. My mom’s family has been here for around the same amount of time. They were among the earliest settlers and slaves in Virginia. One of my ancestors came on one of 17 slave ships from Madagascar, and she was most likely a pirate—16 out of 17 of those ships were piloted by known European pirates.
Ben Jealous answers Robyn’s B-roll bonus questions
Three words to describe America?
Big, Different, Hopeful
If you could time travel, which era in American history would you like to visit?
I’d go back to 1881 Virginia during the time of the Readjuster Party—a remarkable multiracial movement of freedmen and white people that sought to reduce the state’s debt, abolish the poll tax, and invest in public education. My great-great-grandfather was part of this movement, which worked to break down racial and class barriers in pursuit of a fairer Virginia.
Where did you grow up?
Monterey California, but spent the summers in Baltimore with my grandparents
What landscape in the USA inspires you? Or epitomizes your America?
When I was a kid, it was the coast of California, especially Big Sur—it represented freedom from everything. For a kid growing up in a family where my parents had to break the law to get married, Big Sur was my refuge. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized there’s no place more sacred to me than the Chesapeake Bay. I paddleboard, fish, and crab there, just like my grandfather taught me and I've taught my children. It’s not just a body of water—my mother’s family arrived there as slaves and settlers. It also connects our ancestral home in Virginia with Baltimore, where we’ve been rooted for more than 80 years. For my family, it became a gateway to much greater opportunity.
Dream dinner party guests? Which Americans would you invite to your Thanksgiving Table? (Dead or alive?)
Robert E. Lee—controversial, I know, but I recently found out we’re cousins while researching my book. I’d be fascinated to hear him explain himself in his own words. I’ve heard many people defend his cause and many criticize it, but hearing it from him directly would be something else. I’d also invite Dave Chappelle and Dolores Huerta—they’re both whip-smart, fearless, and funny in person. They bring deep wisdom and perspective to any conversation, and I think they’d add a lot to the mix. Rosario Dawson would be another guest—she’s sharp and passionate about the issues she cares about.
Is there a piece of music or art that sums up your America?
Bruce Springsteen
Which books or films best explain America? Fiction or non-fiction.
Never Forget Our People Were Always Free—my book reflects my family’s journey and what it was like growing up bridging different parts of America.
The poems of June Jordan.
The writings of Mark Twain.
The speeches of Martin Luther King Jr.
And the candid reflections of Thomas Jefferson.
Best job?
Being a reporter for a newspaper in Jackson, Mississippi. I spent each week riding around the state in a truck. My publisher gave me one assignment that never changed—go talk to the people, they’ll tell you what’s going on. It was some of the best work I’ve ever done.
When did your family arrive in the US? Where were they originally from?
My father’s family arrived in Salem, Massachusetts, around 400 years ago, coming from England. My mom’s family has been here for around the same amount of time. They were among the earliest settlers and slaves in Virginia. One of my ancestors came on one of 17 slave ships from Madagascar, and she was most likely a pirate—16 out of 17 of those ships were piloted by known European pirates.
Your motto.
I got it from my grandmother, Mamie Todd - “Pessimists are right more often, but optimists win more often. And ask me, I’d take winning”
Why is America divided?
Greed. From the start, America’s purpose was to enrich the king of England, and to do that, the British kept us divided. That divide-and-conquer strategy has been used ever since. But today’s division is extreme, and it’s hard to explain without considering the effects of NAFTA and related trade agreements. Together, they shut down 55,000 factories in the last 30 years and locked many Americans into a downward economic spiral.
Have you lost friends or family because of politics?
I couldn’t let go of my family who voted for Trump, I loved them before and after. But I have lost at least one friend—Reverend Clem Pinckney. We used to convene civil rights leaders together. He was murdered while leading a prayer service at his church. Clem was shot trying to stop the shooter, and he died along with several members of his congregation. [Charleston, Mother Emanuel AME Church]
What issues are driving you to vote? Or not?
Hastening the day that we, as Americans, come together again, and having an economy that lifts all boats.
An American president that you admire?
FDR—he wasn’t perfect, especially with Japanese internment, but he had a vision to lift all boats, and he succeeded better than any president before or since.
An American president that you don't admire?
Woodrow Wilson—he was openly racist in ways that were thoughtless and cruel.
Sports team?
Baltimore Orioles
What were your parent's careers? How has that influenced your career?
My parents were civil rights workers who met as school teachers. The values that led them into those careers have guided my entire life.
What can be done to bring Americans together?
We need to build an economy that lifts all boats. Our best hope is to agree that we intend to lead the global economy again, especially in areas like renewable energy, batteries, and electric vehicles. This is the century in which we’ll change the way the world is powered, and America needs to be at the forefront. We need to be a country that not only designs cool things but builds them and pays people well to do it.
Favorite American restaurant or meal?
Spoonbread and fried apples.
Biggest misconception that the rest of the world has about Americans?
That we’re not interested in them. I think it’s just that we’re a geographically isolated country, and that makes us seem provincial. Another big misconception is that the South is defined by racism and ignorance, while the North is seen as the opposite. In reality, there’s good and bad to be found in both regions, along with great educational institutions and wonderful people everywhere.
Do you listen to, read or watch the news? Where do you get your information?
For the past 15 years, I haven’t watched 24-hour news. I get my news from NPR, newspapers, and the Bobby Bones Show. I’ve avoided 24-hour news because it creates mass anxiety.
Best advice from a parent or grandparent?
My [grandmother's] motto
What does it mean to be an American in 2024?
It means being part of a nation that’s been through dark times before and come out stronger. I come from two old families who know our history and see the arc of our nation in decades and centuries, not weeks and years. There have been many times when we feared for the future of the union, and for humanity itself, but we always managed to hold the country together and move the world away from whatever big risks threatened us all.
Who do you think will win the November election?
Kamala Harris. A few months ago, I would’ve said Donald Trump, but now, I think Harris is the only candidate who has a shot at moving us beyond this time of deep division.